American Bulldog şi FCI

Posted: 9 Ianuarie 2008 by Dan Sabău in info, opinii
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Pentru europeni problema FCI nu este una de luat cu usurinţă în discuţie.
FCI este cel mai important organism chinologic din bătrâna Europă.
Dar totodată este acuzata de criticii săi ca aduce atingere funcţionalitătii raselor prin accentuarea expoziţiilor de frumuseţe.
American Bulldog nu este o rasă recunoscută de FCI.
Multi nici nu doresc asta.
Unora însă pericolul nu le pare la fel de mare ca disconfortul de a avea de lucru cu zeci de entităţi care eliberează pedigree si organizează show-uri.
Alţi vor doar să se prezinte la cât mai multe show-uri.

Care va fi oare direcţia American Bulldogilor din Europa?

The FCI subject is not to be taken easy for any european dog fancier as FCI is the most important dog association in the Old Europe.
In the same time, FCI is accused to be predominantelly show oriented and by this FCi is ruining many working breeds.
American Bulldog is not a breed recongnized by FCI, and many involved in the breed reject the ideea.
There are some for whom the chaos about the registers, clubs and so on is more painfull the the potential threat made by any FCi orientation.

I wonder, what will be the way for the American Bulldogs in Europe? With or without FCI?

Comentarii
  1. Szervaczius Robert spune:

    Sincer cred ca majoritatea bulldogerilor Europeni , doresc sa mearga in showuri in special organizate de ABA,ABRA , EKC ABNA , dar intr-un fel si FCI …..Eu de exemplu doresc sa merg in orice show , ….Dar totusi nu as vrea sa fie rasa recunoscuta FCI , parerea mea e ca asta ar distruge incet incet rasa in Europa ……
    E mai bine sa fie rasa lasata asa, sa mergem in showuri special pt bulldogi si in tara sa ne organizam showuri anuale ABNA s-au oricum ar fi ,iar la showurile Fci sa mai mergem ocazional pt ca si restul lumii sa cunoasca rasa … …Primul pas a fost facut la Arad la Derbyul din 2007 si a iesit destul de bine ….

  2. ok…eu cu siguranta vreau sa merg in show-uri indiferent de factura lor…imi place sa vad alti caini, imi place sa interactionez cu crescatorii de diferite orientari …imi place atmosfera de show…o consider un loc unde pot petrece clipe faine cu familia catzeii si prietenii
    Asa am gandit dintotdeauna si nu vreau sa uit asta…nu vreau sa las alte scopuri sa treaca inaintea acestor sentimente.
    Bineanteles ca stiu ce vreau de la un show…ma duc acolo pentru drept de monta pt exemplarele mele…ma duc acolo sa aud si parerea altor specialisti privind exemplarele mele…….
    Discutabile foarte multe aspecte dar pana la urma nici un show si nici un rezultat de pe lumea asta..indiferent de cine va fi dat…nu-mi va schimba principiile si directia in care stiu ca vreau sa merg cu acesti caini.
    In primul si primul rand trebuie sa cunosti foarte bine cainele cu care intrii in ring…ca sa nu fi luat prin surprindere de defectele gasite de judge…apoi tre sa-i stii bine calitatile ca sa poti contesta pertinent eventualele nedreptati………..
    Imi plac showurile….asta e….sper doar sa-mi permit sa merg in cat mai multe

  3. Nu sunt adeptul unui palmares doar de dragul de a a scrie 15 CACIB si 25 de CAC si 30 de BOB……..caut arbitrii care cunosc rasa si care consider ca pt banii pe care ii platesc imi vor da un arbitraj cat mai in cunostiinta de cauza….asta di pct de vedere economic

  4. Dan spune:

    Pentru mine, o expoziţie este importantă pentru că îşi mai dă cu părerea un specialist cu privire la câinii mei.
    Deci în plan personal, cu cqt am o stimă mai mare pentru acel arbitru, cu atât mai mult mă bucur de arbitraj.
    Dreptul de montă e important pentru rasele FCI şi nu există o modalitate de a renunţa la acest mijloc de selecţie, deşi cred că tocmai acest instrument a produs multe probleme la rasele FCI.

  5. v8tom spune:

    Never more FCI! They national clubs ruins our breed! Believe me, I have a very bad PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with FCI practice from 1996 yr. in CZ, SK, PL etc. The FCI is interested only in MONEY from their club’s members and show participants and DON’T WANT accepted any next good step to better future of our breed! v8tom

  6. oarecum nu vad ca fiind corect nici a lasa la indemana oricui are un exemplar al rasei sa reproduca acest exemplar fara a fi cumva validata calitatea sa de reproducator…..de catre un arbitruu…un cunoscator al rasei….
    Facem noi selectie in canisa proprie si vom monta intr-un final ceea ce ne place si consideram mai bun….dar asta dintr-un lot corect de exemplare
    Noi decidem asta?…..avem totusi nevoie de un arbitru specialist care sa spuna..DA exemplarul e unul tipic, corect si merita reprodus?….eu sincer cred ca da
    Am exemple de „crescatori” care in stiinta lor reproduc exemplare care nici macar tipice rasei nu sunt…de aici tone de caini ce nu apartin rasei…generatii din ce in ce mai nereusite de pui.
    Nu toti intelegem genetica…fiziologie…aplomburi corecte…comportament/temperament…..pentru majoritatea cel mai bun caine e cel alintat de sub plapumica si care e iubit pentru cu totul alte calitati decat cele necesare unui reproducator…adica ce dragutz eee….ce ma iubeste si cum sare in bratze…mai ales cand il tratez de eczeme si cand ii fac masaj la picior ca schioapata……..
    Reproductia si selectia trebuie cumva sa devina doar indeletnicirea unor canise…unor oameni specialisti sub indrumarea unor specialisti….asa cred eu…pana la urma dorim ca si AB sa ramana un caine de rasa pura

  7. expozitiile de aceea devin importante….acum dupa cum am mai zis tine de fiecare in ce directie o ia si cat de importante devin
    Personal doresc confirmarea cainilor mei in ring…….atat
    Atat timp cat eu cunosc rasa ….esenta bulldogului american…ceea ce intrezarim in povestile luiJDJ si a altora si dorim sa avem in curte…..nu am sa las nici un fel de arbitraj eronat sa ma indrume spre un program de selectie gresit….cred ca aici e teama ca FCI cu arbitrii mai mult sau mai putin pregatiti pot influenta rasa promovand exemplare de un anumit tip
    Eu am sa-mi duc masculul pt drept de monta si ma opresc……altul il va duce la „n” CAC uri si va face palmares…..desii poate masculul meu e mai bun doritorul de monta se va duce la cel mai plimbat si premiat…….Dar hai sa punem in ipoteza ca doritorul de monta are si el un discernamant si nu va fi asa usor influentat………aici poate fi mentionat si codul bulldoggerului care poate si trebuie sa contina astfel de principii prin care un caine cu 100 CAC uri nu e musai mai bun decat un caine cu un invingator club la Souza

  8. in final e foarte discutabil…azi avem de unde alege in toate directiile mai mult sau mai putin corecte sau morale…..e bine ca suntem si noi aici incercand sa indrumam si sa ne invatam impreuna , unii pe altii cum e corect si moral

  9. Dan Sabău spune:

    Eu tot am auzit că FCI strică rasele.
    Cu ce instrumente o face?

  10. Dan Sabău spune:

    Eu mă gândeam că prin:
    îndrumarea selecţiei (drept de montă, etc.); titluri exclusiv de frumuseţe, arbitrii specializaţi în prea multe rase.
    Oare să fie de fapt doar orientarea proprietarilor şi a crescătorilor către aspectul raselor de vină?

  11. Dan Sabău spune:

    Tom I often hear about FCi ruining the breeds but I have never understood what tools they use?
    Is it the show, is it the stud approval or is it their way of educating people?
    Sometimes I am close to believe the members are to blame as they are all the time desperate to collect titles.
    Well, which is?

  12. pai odata prin arbitrii slab pregatiti…dar invata sa stii si documenteazate ce arbitru merita platit sa te arbitreze…si alege expozitiile care ti se par ok. Aici un rol important il au si cluburile de rasa afiliate FCIO care sunt mai stricte si unde arbtrii sunt specialisti..la ciobanesc gberman crescatorii evta CAC si CACIB fiind interesati de expo de club unde vin arbitrii germani de la mama lor SV
    a doua oara unii se orienteaza strict spre frumusete…sunt rase la care asta strica mai putin dar la rasele de lucru unde cluburile dar si ACHR impun examene de lucru pt reproductie ar trebuii sa fie ok atat timp cat respecti regulile
    Insa marea problema e ca asoc judetene, locale inca fac ce vor iar COR ( cartea de origine romana ) emite acte pt pui a carar parinti nu indelinesc conditii pt drept de monta desii cluburile urla in gura mare nevoia lor.
    De ce strica…pentru ca inca mai exista posibilitatea ca oricine are un caine cu ped sa poata reproduce acel caine fara a fio verificat invreun fel sau poate dupa ce a castigat 3 calificative pe la „cucuietzii din deal” arbitrat de „nea cutare”

  13. i understand that Mr Tom is watching this…so welkome
    I think we have in FCI all the right regulation to breed a corect working AB…but it depindes of us, everyone of us to really respect that.
    If the romanian AB club will negociate with ACHR ( Romanian chinological association – FCI ) a colaboration and we will have our own set of regulation like the breeding right is for individuals that have 3 exc and one exc in a club expo …and work exam BH minimum…….
    let’s go further and say HD..pen Hip scores for the dogs that whant breedeng rights

  14. we can go to FCI shows….but what we need is a club for AB to do some guiding..make some rules like that
    ASP BAR is dooing a show that we need here in Ro…is the begining that we have to follow
    Tom i breed olsow german shepherds….FCI destroy this breed…but my dogs are super ok working temperament and corect and helthly conformation….why?…i started from german bloodlines and i breed for de quality of the pups…not for selling more of them.
    FCI can destry or help…….depindes of us
    still i hate birocrasy so is better withowt FCI

  15. Dan Sabău spune:

    Tom, I know CMKU – (is that correct for your FCi canine club? ) issues pedigrees for American Bulldogs.
    Is that a good method?
    Should we follow the same solution here, in Romania?

  16. Hi,

    We invite you and your friends the 2008.04.25-27. ABNA-HEABC American Bulldog Show!
    More Infos you finde here: http://www.american-bulldog.hu
    Greetings Tamás Szabó & Roland Nemes

    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

  17. v8tom spune:

    Hello Friends, first of all – sorry for my bad English! FCI is a monopoly in East Europe. FCI organized more than 95% dog shows in our countries. Co-operation with FCI is very good to promotion of our breed especially in his beginning. But later you’ll found out many problems concerning the FCI out-of-date breed standard, discrimination of Standard types, bad judging (I don’t know any FCI judge who knows anything about basic difference between structural and cosmetic faults!), bureaucracy etc. Many true bulldoggers will be frustrated and they lost interest in this system because most of FCI show winners will be dogs in the same „extreme” type (Oldie, Mastiffy etc.) – probably mostly without any signs of true temperament and health (for FCI this isn’t important). During the time puppy millers will be producing more and more poor quality bulldogs… Buyers without any true knowledge about our breed will be more and more frustrated from different look, bad temperament and shitty health of their dogs… AB popularity and price rapidly declined… Pet quality bulldogs w/o papers get a 3/4 of all target and they will be sells for 200-300 EUR…
    But FCI still don’t be interested in our breed’s problems… No interest, no any change in their rules, no any help for a better AB future… Simply – fuck off „not-recognized bastards from US”…
    Here is my „future vision” depending on my 10 yrs. experience with FCI in Czech Republic. Maybe in your country living better FCI reps… Later, v8tom

  18. Dan Sabău spune:

    „Simply – fuck off “not-recognized bastards from US”…”
    ;D
    Well, I almost had that sensation.🙂

  19. Dan Sabău spune:

    Hello Tamas and Roland.
    Thank you for your invitation, we will promote your show in Romania as we did last year.
    Who is in the organizing team?

  20. v8tom spune:

    Sorry – not a target but market… By the way some CZ puppy millers offered now AB puppies for 150 EUR…
    Fortunately men like a Dan, Roland, Tamas, Peter, Adrian, Karel, Enriko and more will be still working on true quality of the real ABs. We are the HEABC team!
    Our upcoming shows dates for 1/2 of 2008:
    12-13/04/2008 – Irondog & ABNA show- Albertovec (CZ)
    26-27/04/2008 – Two ABNA shows + working exhibition – Tokorcs (HU)
    17/05/2008 – ABNA show + working exhibition – Timisoara (RO)
    31/05+1/06/2008 – Irondog + ABNA show – Hamry (CZ)
    Best regards, v8tom

  21. Dan Sabău spune:

    Well Tom, we have our puupy millers in Romania messing out with our breed too.
    They sell some ambull-like as true working ambulls with 100 € to 200 €. They import them from Hungary, Czech Republik and mainlly from Ukraine and they just mock us for striving for good blood in pedigrees.
    They sell to insane people with hunting dreams as hunting down Carpathian Bears with one American Bulldog only.

    The World is an insane place!

  22. v8tom spune:

    Yes, sometimes too much bad news… Concerning the club: ABs really need a specialized clubs in all countries! Only true bulldoggers understand all about our a little bit extraordinary breed. Future of our breed is in OUR HANDS ONLY because none of rest is capable of working on it non-stop every day… In my opinion this is a BASIC point to upcoming good and reasonable steps in the near future! DON’T FORGET – THE RIGHT PEOPLE ARE THE ALL!!! v8tom
    PS: If somebody know someone from FCI structure with the same AB’s knowledge, a lot of a free time and with serious abilities to work on our breed’s future, please let me know asap about him🙂

  23. v8tom spune:

    About papers: for me isn’t important, I accepted papers from Mongolia, if they will be correct… (for example). Papers aren’t a guarantee of a dog’s quality, papers are only an info about dog’s pedigree… But sometimes we found some false papers (especially FCI) or papers from very small registries with many unknown dogs in the ped (Russia, IKC etc.)… From this reason ABNA now recognized only 6 main registries in the world (ABA, ARF, NKC, UKC, ABRA and ARFE-OTDS) as an ONLY acceptable registries for they shows, because ABNA believe in a BREEDERS from those registries only. FCI papers still are good for me (in spite of some faults and bad names) but FCI breeders should be have a double registration of all their dogs to participation in the ABNA shows. That’s a life… v8tom

  24. Hi,

    The Tamás and I are the organizers simply because Backyard quit because of this two people we were left over! But from this a show will be even better independent,bigger with a dog staff number, huge goblets and dog we will organize shows the show.I hope that you come very much onto Tokorcs 2008.04.26-27. because we marry you ( into Romania ) we will enter for approximately 10-15 dogs and 6 men would need accomodation! You come how many people and how many dogs you bring onto Tokorcs?

    We invite you and your friends the 2008.04.25-27. ABNA-HEABC American Bulldog Show!
    More Infos you finde here: http://www.american-bulldog.hu
    Greetings HEABC-Hungary

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